Zaza Tskhovrebadze: If you have enemy, you don't care where you hit him from

Zaza, who was a partisan and fought against the Russians in Georgia, is now fighting them in the war in Ukraine

The people who came to Ukraine and joined the Ukrainian army to fight the Russians are called "soldiers of the International Legion." Zaza Tskhovrebadze is a Georgian who fought with the Russians from a young age: during his country's first conflict with a Russian trace, Zaza was a teenager, and he says that many boys died on his street, but he, who wanted revenge, was not recruited. He had to wait until he turned 18, when he joined the Georgian Internal Troops, securing green corridors for refugees and neutralizing subversive groups of Russian separatists. Then came 2008, and even later a quiet pro-Russian coup in his native country, and now he is an exile at home. He hasn't been to Georgia since 2017, when Ukraine passed a law allowing foreigners to legally fight in the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Until 2021, Zaza was an infantryman in Donbas. After the invasion in February 2022, he fought with the Transcarpathian assault troops from the separate 15th Battalion of the 128th Mountain Assault Brigade. He was wounded. Now he is going to the front again, but before that he has to settle his rear and preparatory affairs, so we meet in Transcarpathia.

The story of Zaza Tskhovrebadze, a Georgian fighting against Russia in Ukraine, is in the publication of Ukrinform.

A GUERRILLA FIGHTER FROM THE GEORGIAN 1990S

First of all, the Georgian apologizes for not being able to speak Ukrainian at a high level yet. He says that he understands it very well, but that he does not reproduce it well. I joke that I can easily forgive him because he is defending my country from the Russians. What can you do, he replies, if the enemy is common.

Zaza Tskhovrebadze has been in Ukraine since early 2017. His arrival here is connected with the war. He says that he has wanted to fight with the Russians since 2014, but he did not come here because there was no transparent law that would allow foreigners to fight in the Ukrainian army.

- "You have to admit," he says, "when strange people run around the country with assault rifles, it's not good. It's illegal, and I don't like breaking the law and never support it. That's why I wasn't here in '14 and '15. As soon as your then-President Poroshenko signed a law allowing foreigners to join the Armed Forces of Ukraine, I came.

- I googled information about you before the meeting, and in addition to short stories, the search engine also gives links to Russian websites where Zaza Tskhovrebadze's name is among those who are being investigated by the Russian FSB.

- Well, this goes without saying.

- Is that why you are a military man?

- I'll be more precise: I fought in 1998 in Gali [a city in Abkhazia, 77 kilometers south of Sukhumi.] The war officially ended in August 1993, but guerrilla wars continued for a long time. In '98, in the Gali region, they began to push refugees again - for Russians, these are traditional methods: if they cannot take what they want by military means, they resort to these methods. We stayed there for a year and two months - I was serving in the internal troops at the time [something like our National Guard].

- So you are a partisan from the 90s?

- (Smiles). My motivation for going to war against the Russians and the separatists they openly supported was simple: so many young men from my street had died, and I wanted to avenge them! Back then, in 1992-1993, I couldn't join the army, I really wanted to fight, but of course I wasn't accepted into the army because I was only 14 years old, I was a boy. And when I grew up, I went to fight for those dead guys from our street. I couldn't do anything else.

MY GRANDMOTHER WAS UKRAINIAN

We meet, of course, in a Georgian restaurant for khachapuri. Zaza is sitting across from me, and above him is a colorful painting of a Georgian man flying in a dance over the mountains. I say it's a nice shot, I want to take a picture for the article. I barely have time to make a few shots: my vis-a-vis doesn't like to be photographed, and he gets visibly irritated by the click of the shutter. Although he later admits that he himself worked as a radio reporter for some time in the early 2000s and filmed for local Georgian TV.

- "In Georgia, the job situation was not very good, I had to work in different fields. But the best years and earnings were when I worked on radio and TV. Those were the golden years - from '99 to 2003. Then the government changed, and the media had to work under a license, as the law required, so many channels were closed. After that, I worked for a long time as a security guard for a well-known businessman in Georgia, and was his personal bodyguard.

This lasted until 2017. Then came the war in Ukraine.

I ask Zaza Tskhovrebadze what motivated him: to break down, leave everything in his native country and go to war in a foreign country, knowing that you are unlikely to be able to return?

When I ask him, he smiles again.

- "There are many things! First of all, the enemy is always the enemy. Wherever he fights: against your country, against another country - he remains your enemy everywhere. It doesn't matter to me where I take revenge on him. If there were no war in Ukraine now, I would have gone to Israel, where the Russian trail also stretches," he says.

- "The second reason is that my grandmother is Ukrainian, from the Ivano-Frankivsk region, the village of Sloboda Nebylivska. In World War II, she saved my wounded grandfather from death, and then, when he recovered and won the war, in '45, when he was returning home from the front, he stopped by to thank her for saving him. It was a great love. My grandmother followed him to Georgia. As for me, even these two reasons are enough, aren't they?" the Georgian smiles again.

FIGHT SIDE BY SIDE WITH FOREIGNERS

I'm wondering if it's a difficult task for a foreigner to join the Ukrainian army?

- The whole process takes about a month and a half. And this red tape is not about documents anymore, it's the checks that take a lot of time. And this is right, because there can be spies and saboteurs. And so it should be. Because it is wrong to give an unverified person a weapon," says the soldier.

"Please tell us about your experience of the war in Donbas - Zaza Tskhovrebadze fought in 2017 near Popasna, Troitske, and at the Svitlodarsk bulge.

- At the time, I was part of a Georgian battalion, going to my own, where I already had experience in accepting foreigners into the unit. People from Britain, Germany, and France served with us at the time.

- How did you feel among them? These are people from different countries who have gathered here to fight against Russia - each has their own motives, their own history...

- I didn't ask them about this, it's not my business at all. And you wouldn't really ask them, because how can you talk about what brought you to war with a German or a Frenchman if you don't know their language? Even if he answers your question, you still won't understand. That's why we communicated exclusively "on the job" - on missions, it's easy to do it with military gestures. That's right, the standards help us understand each other, even if the other is Chinese.

Zaza says that fighting side by side with foreigners was sometimes "even fun."

- "The 'fun' is that they don't understand a lot of things about how the army works here. They are used to the fact that if they need something, they ask the commander and it is brought to them. And how is it here? You need something, and the commander says: we don't have it, so you start getting it yourself or with the help of volunteers. In other words, they in America and Britain are used to service at war, but we provide this service for ourselves.

OUR MAIN FOCUS IS DONBAS

After the Russian invasion in February 2022, Zaza found himself in the 15th Assault Battalion. He renewed his contract with the Armed Forces of Ukraine because he had been working in Germany for some time.

I ask him why he chose the 15th Battalion, because it was one of the units that was in the hottest spots of the war.

- I found out later that they were stormtroopers, not infantry. My friends were there, so I followed them. I arrived on February 23 after the exercises, and on the morning of the 24th I received a call saying that it had started, and I had to get to the unit quickly. On March 15, we were at the front line. And on the 31st I got my first wound in the shoulder. Then I recovered and fought in the Donetsk region, mostly in our area. Although the guys and I went through Bilohorivka, Kreminna, and the liberation of Kherson together, now they are without me in the Zaporizhzhia sector. But our main focus is Donbas.

I ask if the assault aircraft was something new for the military.

- There was nothing new, given my experience of guerrilla warfare in Georgia, it was very similar. In Georgia, our battalion was always put in front. It happened after one incident when we discovered a sabotage group. Our operational brigade was an example for other units, the command considered us the best and always sent us first. Although that incident with the saboteurs was an accident. When the refugees were being driven out of Halychyna, our task was to organize and secure the green corridor, and when we started to take up positions, we accidentally discovered separatists - there were no drones to look at, we didn't even have armor and helmets. We met a large group of separatists and neutralized them. After that, they looked at us as if we were the first. On our own heads," Zaza jokes again.

So, he says, there was nothing new for him in the role of an assault pilot.

"We had to go and storm, so we stormed. There is a war going on, it is difficult - someone has to do it.

- Our stormtroopers are now fighting for literally every meter of their native land, it's hard, bloody, not everyone is capable, only highly motivated people who really understand the value of each meter. What motivates you to gnaw away at the Ukrainian land from the enemy meter by meter?

- It doesn't matter whether it's a Ukrainian or a Georgian who is gnawing it away from the Russians, and I'll tell you why. What you saw in Bucha, Irpin, we saw in Georgia in the 90s. Russians have always done this, they did the same thing in Abkhazia, Gagra, Sukhumi. But then there were no social networks, and the world did not see it in such detail. But we were there. We saw it. We talked about it, but we were not accepted or believed. That's why we went through it 30 years ago. And it still motivates us. And it's also important to note that when there was a war in Abkhazia, only Ukrainians helped us, and then the guys from the UNA-UNSO fought with us. And this is my third reason to fight for Ukraine now. I am here now also because Ukrainians once supported us. I also remember well the case when the Georgian authorities organized a human corridor through mountain settlements, and one day the weather changed in the mountains, and people were covered with snow and frozen. And then Ukrainian pilots helped to transport people.

IN GEORGIA, ORDINARY PEOPLE SUPPORT UKRAINE

I ask Zaza how they perceive the creeping intervention of Russians in Georgia - we all remember how last year Russians stormed the borders and broke through from "Mather Rassia" to other countries to avoid being mobilized.

In his opinion, this is bad. Because now it is calm there and there are no hostilities. And when the Russians want to, they will.

- This is not even a hybrid war. What do Russians do? First they come here and say how good, beautiful, convenient, comfortable, and so on. And then, after a while, they start commanding: why don't you have Russian monuments here? Why don't you speak Russian? Isn't Russian the second state language?

- Do Georgians realize what awaits them?

- I will tell you this: ordinary people support Ukraine. But the government - well, you saw it when people protested against the government: some lost an eye, some had their arm or leg broken... Georgia is not Ukraine, there are only 3.5 million of us. We don't have such opportunities to resist. Those Georgians who have the opportunity now are leaving, leaving their native land. And this is wrong.

The fact that the government in Georgia is now pro-Russian is also the reason why the FSB has a dossier on Tskhovrebadze. And he cannot come to his country, despite the fact that he has not been home since the beginning of 2017.

- I can go to Georgia, everything will be fine for two or three weeks, and then something will happen. Maybe an accident, or I leave home and go missing. In the best traditions, because this is the only way they know how, they don't know any other way," says Zaza Tskhovrebadze. "But I am one hundred percent sure that Ukraine will win this war. It is a matter of time. Here is another reason why I am fighting here: it brings my opportunity to return home closer. I am also here making efforts to make my way home. These are interdependent situations. When Ukraine wins, these rats from Georgia will run away on their own," says the Georgian.

RUSSIAN PRISONERS DON'T EVEN HAVE CHEVRONS ON THEIR UNIFORMS

Meanwhile, the soldier shows archival photos from the war, including his "collection" of Russian chevrons. Collected from those who were captured or neutralized.

- I never had the chance to capture Kadyrov's men or Wagner's men, they were mobilized Russians. One of the people I spoke to was a prisoner. As he said, they don't even ask you if you want to go to war anymore. They just came in a truck, loaded them up and drove away. He was in jail for murder and had served 6 years out of 9. I asked him: do you like this business, killing? He waves: yes. An ordinary man, about 60 years old. So, prisoners at war don't even have insignia on their uniforms. Why? They are simply utilized. It's beneficial for the Russians: there is less crime, society is purified...

Zaza says he has no respect for the enemy.

- You know, there is a human organ called the brain. It is responsible for the human body and actions. Instead of this organ, Russians have a folded piece of paper with what the propaganda has written. They really believe in these Bandera’s geese, war mosquitoes, and that American computers program the Ukrainian military. And at the same time, these people have ambitions for an educated, well-read nation.

Zaza says that he realized everything about Russians a long time ago. The reason for their wars is simple: they hate it when people live better than they do.

- When we told them in 2008 that they were stealing toilets, kitchen utensils, and underwear, they didn't believe us, Georgians. Now everyone has seen it. Do you remember that sign in Bucha or Irpen: "Who allowed you to live like this?" This is the real reason why Russia attacked Ukraine. They are used to the idea that what the Russians have should not be available to others. Or if someone has something they don't, they should be killed.

UKRAINIANS ARE THE FIRST ARMY OF THE WORLD, I SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES

I end the conversation with a question about how Zaza is so optimistic about the Ukrainian victory.

In his opinion, it is too early to give up. War is a very expensive and difficult thing. A war like the one in Ukraine cannot be ended in a year or two. We just need to be patient and help.

- Yes, I see many healthy men here, in the rear, walking around, drinking beer and coffee. They think that this war is somewhere far away in Donbas and will not affect them. No. Do you remember when the war started in Ukraine, President Zelensky asked Israel for an "iron dome" - they did not support it because they said that this war did not concern them. Now we see what is happening in their country...

Why am I confident in Ukraine's victory? Because the world will not allow Russia to win. Let's think about what would happen in this case: Ukraine has lost, and what's next? The next targets are Poland, the Baltic states, and Germany. I am sure that this will not happen.

I have a lot of friends in the Ukrainian army. I admire them. For me, this is the first army in the world, not only in terms of motivation and patriotism. This is an army that holds back the Russians with small forces. It is very powerful. I saw it with my own eyes and was directly involved in what I am proud of. When last year the whole world was looking at those Russian tanks and Bekhs drowned in the swamps near Bilohorivka, we were doing the same thing with the guys. Our infantry and artillery from the 80th Brigade. If the Russians knew then how many of us stopped them there, they would have been shocked. They were up to a brigade, and we were 40 people. That's why I have no doubt that Ukrainians are the first army in the world," says my interlocutor.

Tetiana Kohutych, Uzhhorod

Photo by the author and from the archive of Zaza Tskhovrebadze