Oleksandr Pivnenko, Brigadier-General, Ukraine National Guard (NGU) Commander

The sounds of shooting are heard coming from a shooting ground at one of the UNG’s training centers all along early morning. These are snipers brushing up their shooting skills. Solders are also trained there. At the facility, there are equipped firing lines, and there are also modular buildings built for personnel and shelter. We are waiting for the commander while in the company of UAV operators; they are carefully laying out a variety of different drones, including those manufactured at the National Guard's own workshops. We join them in their small talk about the quality of "kitchen drones”. “The more drones, the better”, they say, and we agree.

Bearer of the title of “Hero of Ukraine”, Brigadier General Oleksandr Pivnenko is young, athletic leader, and a talk with him reveals that he is habituated to handle things in a businesslike manner. He is showing us vehicles and equipment, is talking about the hardware they’ve repaired. The General was also talking about NGU’s bakeries, water filling stations and field hospitals. "This is autonomy," Oleksandr Pivnenko explains.

Pivnenko has been in his position since early July 2023, i.e. a bit longer than a year. It is noticeable that the General is thinking million things in his head, but he still manages to find time to meet with his soldiers’ parents and to talk patiently with them. He says that he accepts complaints by himself and responds to appeals via his Facebook.

The commander tells about how the NGU is evolving into an effective, highly combat capable branch of the Defense Forces, how it is handling the shortage of human resources and planning for force rotations, where soldiers are assigned to serve after being released from captivity or treated for injuries.... And, of course, about the prospects we are facing in this war.

HANDYMEN: THEY MAKE DRONES OF THEIR OWN AND DESTROY THOSE OF THE ENEMY

- Mr. General, you have been in this position for a year now. How has this time passed? Have you encountered any specific difficulties or disappointments?

- Difficulties are always there. Aside from frontline challenges, our priority task was to increase and improve the capabilities of our training centers. We understood that the more properly trained personnel, the more effective we will be on the battlefield, and the more solder lives will be saved. Previously, one and a half thousand soldiers could undergo training at any one time; now at least five thousand can be trained simultaneously, and we are working to get this number increased further. When I arrived to this position, there were two training centers, we created another one, and the fourth is under creation. We are working to improve instructors’ proficiency and to perfect training levels. There are also courses held abroad on a regular basis. Some dozen countries are helping us with this, providing language training, staff training, sniper training.

- Does that mean to say that foreign training programs, too, are expanding in scope?

- Yes, where appropriate and needed. But some of the programs can be reduced where we estimate relevant training can be provided by training centers of our own. This is better and faster, because the battlefield dictates what is needed. Sometimes we need to act quickly, but taking, say, 300 people away from abroad quickly if need be will not be the case. These training programs are funded by international partners, people are on assignments in foreign countries for a month, two or three, and this should be taken into account and planned for.

- A year ago, when you came to lead the NGU, there was a high-profile campaign to organize offensive brigades within the National Guard. Where are they, how are they faring, are more such formations currently being organized?

- It is more effective to fight with brigades that with company or battalion tactical groups redeployed here and there. The same is with the training of staff officers, the management of battalions, companies, various support units... Where everyone are our own people, work is coordinated better, and soldiers, like my comrades in arms, understand each other and me without words. Currently, all seven brigades that you’ve  asked about are performing tasks on different stretches of the frontline, ranging from Zaporizhzhia to Kharkiv axis, where our Khartia brigade is fighting now. We are holding our defenses, we are slowly taking back what we’ve lost, as is the case with individual parts of the frontline on the Eastern Front. We have organized a tactical group comprised of two or three brigades, which that group can control and command. This is not a novelty for the Armed Forces, but this is the first practice of this kind in the National Guard.

And it is highly effective, too. We need information of some sort, support with weapons, something has burned out and needs to be replaced, ammunition is running out - everything happens very quickly. If a brigade leader, for instance, is planning for an offensive or knows that the adversary is planning for something, then I use reserve supplies in order to avoid any interruptions. In addition to what we receive for our tasks from the Armed Forces, we always have supplies in reserve.

- You already have your own workshops for the manufacture of drones. It logically follows that the supply of drones has been pushed up to a new level…

- Initially, we had to get permits to manufacture the drones at military bases. That used to be decided at the ministerial level. Permits have been received, and now we are empowered to manufacture our drones with government money. We put out first-person-view (FPV) drones among others. Previously, we had one separate unit of UAV operators, now we have two more (separate operator units for the UAV’s "Omega Wings" and "Typhoon"). An unmanned system control center has been set up, which performs analysis and operational deployment. It is vital to be able to maintain, analyze and control this work, to increase its effectiveness and efficiency.

- What kind of artillery brigade you need to have? Is there one already?

- A separate artillery brigade has been organized, at my initiative, to support the National Guard units fighting on one certain axis. This brigade, armed with domestically built "Bohdana" self-propelled 155-m artillery gun vehicles, has already proved its worth. It’s enough to have two such vehicle-based systems deployed per axis, and we will have a total of about two dozen such systems in our arsenal, which is quite sufficient for the needs of the National Guard. Crews to operate eight of them have already been trained. In other words, alongside performing our law enforcement missions, we also know how to wage a fully-fledged battle, to bolster border security, and to fight on the immediate line of contact. The management of public order, protection of vital national infrastructures and nuclear power plants, escorting convicts and detainees are also our tasks, indeed.

- You’ve mentioned vital infrastructures. Where is more focus on: repelling attacks with Shakhed UAV’s or anti-sabotage measures?

- The key challenge is to enhance security, provide defense if and where necessary, shoot down incoming drones and missiles. We did not perform the counter-subversive functions like the ones currently performed by the Main Directorate of Intelligence (HUR).

We work within in the unified Armed Forces system, carrying out the task of strengthening the national air defense capability. This needs the use of man portable air defense missile systems (MANPADS) or self-propelled anti-aircraft gun systems like the German Gepard, which all are highly effective weapons against drone threats.

- Are you experiencing a lack of resources now? What would you want more in your arsenal?

- Trained personnel, drone operator crews. People need to be selected based on skill and capability analysis, then put to training... Once a mobilized man arrives, he needs to undergo a five-week training course in basic military training. Then he is assigned, say, to an UAV operator unit for a more specialized training course, and only then the soldier is ready to perform real-world tasks.

MOBILIZATION, RECRUITMENT, SERVICE AFTER SEVERE WOUNDS OR CAPTIVITY

- How are people coming to you: through contract, recruitment? How does it work with you?

- The National Guard maintains a recruitment website, advertising is constant, and the brigades themselves are working towards this end, too. On top of that, mobilization campaign is ongoing on a parallel track, and a certain part of people are coming to us through the General Staff.

- How far is it effective? As early as in April you were complaining about a shortage of personnel...

For now, the overall number of new comers to our units has grown four-fold.

- Don’t you think it’s due to the recently passed mobilization law?

- There has recently been an increase in the number of the people who are coming to us through mobilization or due to our recruitment campaign. The adversary’s resources and PSYOP are both working, claiming, among other things, that Ukraine is allegedly throwing the untrained into the war. Our officers in command well understand that training is what matters most. Well, they may send an ill-trained soldier and he, God forbid, dies or loses a defensive position. Then a properly trained soldier will have to go there to retake the lost position, which is way more difficult than holding it. So its’ better to avoid losing defensive positions. And thanks to the experience and expertise of our officers and to high-quality training, we had only one wounded in an offensive operation that involved retaking 8-9 defensive lines.

- Well, you told on four occasions that you have managed to increase the inflow of new recruits. Then what about letting personnel rotate home?

- Rotations will be held, but at a later time, because everyone are now serving at the frontline. Furthermore, there are tasks to toughen the State border, particularly in near-the-frontline and de-occupied areas, and there are other tasks as well.

- But you can plan them separately, within the National Guard..

- We can, but now we are not talking about personnel rotations at the brigade level. We can do it at the level of battalions, company tactical groups. This is important, too. The adversary is trying to act aggressively along the entire frontline, so we must have our forces concentrated, engage our special operations forces. The frontline is hugely long, there are aggressive enemy assaults, there are air strikes, but we are still working. And we will increase and improve our capabilities, will be self- developing, getting prepared, teaching leaders. We will become better.

- Are you talking about the time when the hostilities decrease in intensity to an extent?

- Yes. But the same is true for the adversary... We will most likely build our army and get our military prepared following the pattern of the Israeli army, but with due account taken of our national interests, experience, our vision. If we are to live as a state and survive as a nation, we will constantly have to defend ourselves.

- According to the law, the National Guard doesn’t seem to have been created for fighting at the frontline, but, rather, for securing critical infrastructures, for patrolling missions, checkpoint service and other similar tasks.

- Yes, our tasks are different, but they involve a major military component. All the components of the defense forces are currently performing the main task, which is fighting off the armed aggression. In the future, participation in stabilization measures in regions to be liberated from Russian occupation will be among the tasks set to the National Guard units. But if we are able to create brigades that will be not inferior to the Armed Forces’ mechanized brigades in terms of quality and quantity, then we have to do everything to defeat the enemy right now.

- I know of cases where police officers, as rumors claim, were forced into the "Fury" brigade; they resigned because they did not want to serve as assault troops. What’s your thoughts about this? Have you heard about such cases taking place in the NGU, like an order came requiring ,say, 20 personnel to be mustered for a storming attack, and where to take them from is no one’s concern.

- Why do we need such distribution lists given we are already fighting? You see, the police was performing one sort of tasks. Then assault brigades began to be organized. But not only these include infantry or assault soldiers. By the way, more than 800 police officers are currently undergoing joint military and combat team training at NGU’s training centers.

War is always difficult; it is very hard for the whole society to accept it, because fighting is waged and people are dying. As a former special operations soldier, I was getting myself prepared for this. In February 2022, we arrived to our assigned base, loaded ourselves with weapons, and went to perform tasks. There was a tank standing still; we destroyed it along with the 30 soldiers who were already on the outskirts of Kharkiv City... And now, when I am a commander, I am in constant contact with soldiers, families of prisoners of war, of the dead and missing soldiers, understanding the difficult challenges facing me. War is ongoing, Russian troops continue to press on, forces and capabilities are needed to defend our cities and people. Both patrol police and border guards are fighting. What matters here is appropriate preparations, training, and logistics.

- About seven hundred National Guard servicemen are reported to have been released from Russian captivity and brought back home. What’s your estimation about how many of them still remain in captivity?

- A total of 755 have been returned back home so far. Many were captured while defending Mariupol City. So a large number of Azov soldiers and service members of other units still remain in Russian captivity, and we are trying to get them back.

- But NGU servicemen are seen present among each POW exchange group…

- Our servicemen are included into nearly all exchange groups. We are in constant contact with relevant authorities and families. I always emphasize that our task is to bring everyone back home.

- Do you meet later with the exchanged people?

- Yes, indeed, after every exchange. They are sent for treatment to healthcare and rehabilitation centers, we allow them two to three days to adapt, calmly figure things out, get their IDs restored, etc. First and foremost, we seek to provide full-fledged treatment and rehabilitation to those people. Social support units and officers are then engaged to address social security matters, provide potential options for further service, training or retirement from military service. Some of former POW’s return to the frontline to join their comrades and fight.

- Can the people with serious wounds, injuries or amputations apply for further service if they are willing to serve?

- They too are serving. The NGU and Internal Affairs Ministry both have positions reserved for such people. The Minister for Internal Affairs takes care of social security matters, particularly where a person with a disability, or wife or mother of a fallen soldier are involved. We offer them jobs in civil and military positions. An example is a woman currently doing service in Kryvyi Rih city. Her husband soldier fell at war, and his wife is now serving with us, having received training at our training center. As for those with serious injuries or amputations, they have experience and expertise, have been through a lot of stuff. Some are serving with social security and support units, others are instructors.

- In this context, I would like to mention a story involving the judge Oleksiy Tandyr, who fatally struck young National Guardsman Vadym Bondarenko at a checkpoint in Kyiv in May 2023. This story has been dragging  on ever since. Are you following the investigation, the court proceedings? Don't you feel like it's dragging on for too long? I believe there should be immediate responsibility for crimes involving an insult or damage done to the Defense Forces.

- Yes, I am watching. I know that the suspect has been remanded in custody until the end of the summer. Officers of the NGU unit involved are assisting in the investigation. This case has been in the focus of media and public attention alike, demanding a fair verdict first and foremost.

THE ADVERSARY IS NOT ALMIGHTY, BUT WE WILL BE HELPED A LOT WITH HAVING MORE RESOURCES, ALLIED AID AND SMART INNOVATIONS

- How is this war to be survived and withstood? There is talk already that it will take ten years before the war is over…

- There are domains where we are developing fast and intensively, but development in others, such as ammunition, for instance, is yet to gain more momentum. We are currently testing a drone that is highly immune to electronic warfare countermeasures and can carry one kilogram of explosive. This development is highly promising given the rapid development pace of emerging EW technologies, both ours and the adversary’s. We have to constantly move forward, change again and again, improve training and logistics, become united. And so is how we will hold up.

- What’s your assessment of the frontline situation?

- The situation is difficult. But the enemy's offensive capabilities have their limits, and they are, and will continue, suffering very heavy losses. I am expecting that in a four to six weeks’ time they will become unable to conduct active offensive operations on multiple axis all at the same time, and will be forced onto the defensive. And we must use that time to organize and train new divisions. Yes, that’s war…

- You once said you believe that, sooner or later, we will be able to find a gap in their defenses and exploit the gap to break through the frontline.

- It is necessary to look for the enemy’s weak spots and gaps while bypassing the strong ones. It is necessary to adapt, update command and control patterns, set tasks, and where this doesn’t work, try asymmetric means and technique. But everything cannot change dramatically right away; this takes quite a time, especially where fundamental systemic changes are involved.

- What about the provisions for the National Guard?

- Logistics support is highly adaptable to war conditions. Weapons, ammunition, and food supplies are tailored to the needs arising from the threats being faced and to ensure the fastest possible delivery to where the supplies are needed most. We already have three own furniture workshops to assemble furniture for the needs of the National Guard: tables, chairs, bedside tables, cabinets. Where there are new quick-assembly (modular) barracks are built, there is no need to buy furniture. Capacities are also in place to manufacture structures for fortifications.

- Some Western analysts are saying that the situation with the construction of fortifications is finally improving. Is that true?

- Where you are on the defensive, you need to dig in and dig in deeper. That is where we focus on. We have to understand that there are defensive lines, and there are those fortifications that soldiers and engineering units have to make by themselves. A stronghold, if equipped properly, has better chances of sustainment. But reserve strongholds are also needed. When we expelled the enemy from Kharkiv Oblast (in 2022), our brigade was holding a defensive line of about 70 km in length, but still we were able to deliver materials, outfit and strengthen our strongholds.

- What’s your assessment of the role played by volunteers at the current stage in time? Is it decreasing?

- On the contrary. It’s maximum possible, I would say, volunteers are helping us a lot. I understand that, over time, it goes down a little bit – first there is a peak, then the activity decreases, followed by a new peak again. In some specific domains, that trend has been on the rise, particularly with regard to the development of health care, rehabilitation, educational centers, and social projects.

- Are there any projects addressing the autonomy of military units to adapt them to war challenges?

- I like autonomy. Almost every military unit has a water filling station, there are bakeries to help avoid interruptions in bread supplies. It was the case at the beginning of the invasion, but happens no longer. We are working on the optimization of field rations. We will have nine different ration packages. Previously,  everything used to be packed in one single box - breakfast, lunch, and dinner. We got it divided: breakfast, lunch, dinner – all in separate boxes. Soldiers often don’t want to consume the whole content of their daily ration all at once, but can take one or several products before going on an assignment. A thousand new ration packages have already been tested in military units. Solders have duly appreciated this innovation.

- Do you monitor procurements for fairness?

- Each military unit conducts procurements for own needs: there are audit checks, there are open tenders, there is responsibility. There is no need to transport food products from western to eastern regions where there is a manufacturer of the same product in the Kharkiv region, for instance. And every unit leader knows that he is personally responsible. There are also procurements made through supply bases in accordance with legislation regulating defense and public procurements.

- Let's return to the global. I'm not asking for predictions, because it's a stupid thing to do, but what is our hope for? What do you believe in: the unwavering support from partners, a miracle?

- I think we will withstand, that’s for definite. It is necessary to self-develop; if we are constantly one step ahead and think into the future, then everything will be OK. The prime focus should be on preparation, development of training centers, procurement of weapons and military equipment, domestic production of military hardware, drones, armored vehicles, air defense equipment, MANPADS, ammunition. We are working on the creation of reserves. We are learning. And our task as a military is to have in place combat effective units, brigades that are capable of effectively performing tasks at the frontline, capable of defending our State.

Interviewed by Tetyana Nehoda, Kyiv

Photo Credit: Yevhen Kotenko