Malcolm Nance, American intelligence and counterterrorism expert, Foreign Legionnaire with Ukraine’s Defense Forces

My interlocutor Malcolm Nance served 20 years in the United States Navy as a specialist in military encryption, participated in numerous anti-terrorist, intelligence and combat operations, in particular in the field of intelligence. He trained Marines and pilots in the art of war survival and capture. He was involved in military operations in various countries across the Middle East, Africa, and the Balkans. In 2022, he served as a Foreign Legionnaire in eastern Ukraine. Today, Nance runs a think tank that analyzes the fight against terrorism and is a member of the Advisory Board of Directors at the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

ON UKRAINIAN HIGHWAYS, I FOUND AN IMPORTANT FACTOR IN DETERRING THE RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE

- Malcolm, you served in Ukraine in the International Legion in the first year of the full-scale war. What prompted you to come to our country?

- Well, first, the decision was easy. I had been in Ukraine for over a month. I was doing an analysis for a defense think tank of how Russia would invade Ukraine. It was very clear by the first week of January this war was going to happen. And that this would be the largest war in Europe since World War 2.

So I flew to Ukraine because I wanted to analysе where Russia is putting its forces and how would they do the invasion. Because you just don't come out of the woods. You have to be in a place where all your forces come together. You have to be there with fuel, ammunition, and food. We saw them in Belarus, southwest of Kursk, near Belgorod, and near Kharkiv... And the question was, how are they going to do it? Their first objective was very clear: we're going to go to Kyiv from three different directions: from the northwest and northeast through Sumy and Chernihiv.

I predicted this before the war, they would try to drop airborne troops to take a an airfield near the border. And it turns out it was Hostomyl airport that they picked, where Mriya was located.

And you know, you if you're going to think about how an enemy will attack, you have to see the ground they're going to fight on, you have to see which city is there, etc.

- So you managed to go around the entire line of defense where the invasion was expected?

- Yes, almost all of it, except for Odesa. I remember one time, we went on the road from Kyiv to Sumy. And I was like seven hours by car.

I said a tank is going to take 10 days, two weeks. And then the one key thing I learned about Ukraine: every few kilometers, maybe every 10 kilometers, in every village there was a gas station. There's either Socar, or Okko, or some other gas station. And I said Ukraine has the best gas stations in the world because they're not just gas stations. They are stores, little mini restaurants. And I remember the first time I went to a Socar, and there was one wall full of liquor. Very good Azerbaijani cognac, Jack Daniels by the six pack on the front door. I'm partial to Odesa ones…

My first analysis was, the advance of Russian troops would have taken much longer rather than two weeks.

Why? They're going to be drunk. Every intersection that they hit a gas station, these Russians are going to steal every bottle of liquor. And then at night, they're going to get dead drunk, and they will go to sleep, and then Special Forces and the partisans will cut their throat.

Look, I took part in major invasions, Desert Storm, Libya, and we're disciplined Americans, no one touches alcohol. I said these Russians are completely different…

The first days of the war, the first video I remember seeing was from a Socar, and these guys were robbing the cash register. And suddenly somebody saw all the liquor and they got baskets, and they're putting all the wine and liquor, hard alcohol, cognac, everything in the baskets. I go, they're dead men. They'll be drunk when they get killed.

And that's a true factor, the intelligence is how will your enemy behave? They're not going to just do this at the gas stations, they are going to do this in every house they see, they're going to check for liquor.

Of course, the forces that were coming down from Belarus, from the north, they had the airborne drop into Hostomel airport, which was a slaughter. It was what we called a Stinger festival. Because you had guys sitting over the reservoir, just shooting helicopter after helicopter down. It's a slaughter. And they thought we're gonna take this airport, the country will collapse, Ukraine will be ours in three days.

And I said this weeks before the invasion, I gave an analysis on MSNBC. They had an academic who had never been supposedly a Russian expert. Never been to Ukraine. I had just returned from of Avdiivka, where they flew me in a group of journalists. I'm not really a journalist. I was a spy who talks on television.

We were briefed by General Oleksandr Syrskyi who was a commander of land forces at the time. And then general Pavliuk, Commander of of the Donetsk-Luhansk battlefront. And we were at the checkpoint, 70 meters from the Russians.

These journalists were asking stupid questions. And you could tell Pavliuk and Syrskyi were frustrated. I remember this guy, a famous journalist from CNN says, what if the Russians come from the north? And he goes, we'll fight them. He goes, what if they come from the south? He goes, we'll fight them there… I don't care where they come, I'm going to fight them.

And I realized at that moment, this man cannot be beaten. This commander is going to kill Russians.

I said this on MSNBC. That pundit said they'd take Kyiv in three days. I said, listen, I am in Kyiv. This city will never fall, never. It's the size of Chicago. It's got a population of 3 million plus immigrants and other people. Even when the families leave, there will still be a lot of armed people here. I said, they will never take it. And this guy's like, well, you know, Russia's military capacity…

I said, they're going to be drunk. I spent a month studying this. And most importantly, there is the Ukrainian Army. They have been in the field for two weeks with all of their war ammunition, deployed, waiting for the Russians, sitting in trenches. I just met the top two commanders of this war, these guys cannot be beaten. These guys are like freaking George Patton and Dwight Eisenhower, they are going to put up a fight.

I'm the only person to ever say this on U.S. television before the war started: Russia is going to lose.

"BLACK NATO OFFICERS PLANNED A COUNTEROFFENSIVE"

- So how did you get into the Legion?

- That's how I got there... General Pavliuk said, why don't you join the army?

And so when the war started, I left Ukraine, the night of the attack, by complete accident. I had COVID. After I went back to the United States, I realized I'm going back: my friends are being attacked, people I know are being killed. And then the next day, they made the announcement for the International Legion. And so I said, I can do this. Also, I had contracts as a contractor with the United States Government, in Iraq, Libya, and some other places, so I had a garage full of military gear, the best equipment on the planet.

I had body armor, helmets, maybe 100 sets, medical equipment…

At first, I collaborated with the GUR, then transferred to the first battalion of the International Legion in Kharkiv, where I became the chief of intelligence. The Russians eventually blew up our headquarters in the city. Then I moved on to the Third Battalion, which is engaged in special operations. I was the intelligence guy there, but I was also a Scout Sniper.

In September 2022, we participated in the Kharkiv counteroffensive.

- What were you doing in GUR?

- Different things… In addition, in April, GUR wanted me to do a video calling for joining the Legion.

I appeared on MSNBC, where for seven years I acted as an expert, I'm in all of my military gear, I've got a rifle. It's snowing, we're in the middle of an air raid. And I said, I've left MSNBC. I've joined the International Legion. I'm here to fight in defense of Ukraine. Every news media wanted me for an interview the next day, maybe 30 news channels from around the world. But two days later, they call me to a little secret meeting at GUR and they go, we have a video we want to show you. They played a program for me, hosted by Russian propagandist Olga Skabeeva. This was my interview on MSNBC with a Russian translation.

Oh, it was hilarious. They said, listen, Putin knows your name. And they're gonna be coming for you. If you're in training, and you fall down, and you break your leg, we're going to say it's Russia. If you go in the battlefield, and you get sick from eating bad food, we're gonna say it's Russia. But if you get shot in the street in Kyiv, we know it's Russia.

They were calling me the American spy who delivers Legionnaires from all over the world to Ukraine.

Then it got even more interesting... The Kharkiv counteroffensive was very fast... We started at 4:30 in the morning, and by 9:00 it was done. What we were supposed to take by that night, we were taking by 9:00 in the morning. Then artillery comes up and starts shooting. And so I do a video with my comment. And I put this on Twitter. In some days it was all over Russian state television. Black NATO officers were planning the counteroffensive. Here's this guy. He was leading Ukrainian troops…

Even Solovyov was talking about me. For two weeks, they had me on their TV, day and night. It's very funny…

- How long did you stay in the Ukrainian Army?

- I spent almost 10 months in Ukraine, nine in the Army. And I was part of the whole counteroffensive. I went with the Legion behind Russian lines. And we took the east side of the Oskil river. We took the east side of Kupiansk. I spent my 61st birthday on the counter offensive near Kupiansk, the 20th of September 2022.

But I wasn't the oldest, the first Legionnaire to die was 64 years old, a German.

UKRAINE USES HEAD AGAINST ANVIL TACTICS AGAINST RUSSIA.

- Are you following the advance of Russian troops in Ukraine now? How do you assess the prospects for a Russian offensive?

- Well, I follow everything that happens in Ukraine very closely on a day to day basis, and I still interact with my battalion. I'm the largest fundraiser, get them all the weapons, equipment, ammunition, whatever they need.

- Who gives you money?

- Oh, I have lots of different donors. So I follow very carefully that Russia is using these massive attacks. They don't care about their men, they don't care about their equipment. The point is eat Ukraine one meter at a time.

But Ukraine has become very skilled at killing Russians. They fought for the little town of Soledar, for four or five months, and they lost maybe 20,000 men to take a kilometer. President Zelensky said, okay, we're gonna give them this because we met our objective. Our objective was this number of dead Russians. And you know, we obliterated them. The same thing happened in Bakhmut. Almost 40,000 men were killed or wounded. For half of a small town.

Ukraine has to use the tactics to slow and wear away the Russians. The Russians are thinking they can use larger numbers of men every time. I call it the tactic “head against anvil”.

The Ukrainian strategy was to allow Russia to just bash their head against an anvil and knock their brains out. And when their brains are out, you step back one meter. You deplete their forces to make it look like their progress, and then you let them do it again, and you kill more and more, and they are in a mess.

I've seen this happen four major times. And every time people in media go, oh, Russia is winning. I think just the opposite: is this winning when you lose 100,000 men over one year for maybe three to five kilometers? Are you crazy? This is insane.

Ukraine needs more manpower, we know that.

I think you should lower your draft age from 25 to 21. That'll give you another 500,000 men, but you also need the equipment and ammunition. I say this all the time, I said this before Congress. This war eats everything that is delivered. There are no spare bullets. There are no spare rifles, there is no extra artillery. When it arrives, it gets used. There must be a pipeline of nonstop weapons and equipment.

So Ukraine is going to win this war, eventually, if given all the weapons that they want.

I hope that with the change of power, if Kamala Harris is in the White House, I will be involved in the work, because I am well known there...

- Have you also happened to “turn Black”? (Donald Trump said that Kamala Harris ‘’happened to turn Black’’ to appeal to voters – ed).

- (Laughs). You know, fighting in the international Legion that's my ‘’black job‘’... Fighting for victory in Ukraine is my ‘’black job‘’. (Trump also said that migrants were taking the jobs of black people, literally doing a ‘’black job‘’, - ed.)

What the Americans need is better advice. I spent a lot of time in Ukraine, almost a year. But I'm involved every day. I give advice to people on the National Security Council Staff when I'm asked, but who knows? Maybe I'll be in the National Security Council Staff in the next administration. Because I have a unique experience that the academics, the scholars, and the gods in the Pentagon don't.

I have been bombarded for some days nonstop by Russian artillery. I've been hit with white phosphorus and blew up my barracks... I saw the heroism of my brothers.

If you do not have this experience of fighting in Ukraine on the zero line, you do not understand what is really happening.

My team leader was a Polish Special Forces officer, incredibly brave man, the first thing he told everybody, first question he asked, are you willing to die for Ukraine?

- So, what was your answer?

- That's why I'm here. But I'm going to make other people die first, on the other side of the frontline...

- Did your age prevent you from performing combat missions?

- I can run 5 kilometers with all my combat gear.

I had to train a 25-men team in Yavoriv for a month. Every morning we started at 4:30 silent patrol, everybody would get up, put on everything without saying a word, get their weapon, get their equipment, no night vision. And we would run 4 kilometers with everything.

I want to defend your country because you're good people. And you have heart, you cannot be beaten. When this war is over, the Ukrainian Army will be training every army in Europe and the United States. Easy. No question.

F-16S WILL EXTEND UKRAINIAN AIR DEFENSE FAR BEYOND RUSSIAN BORDERS

- How do you think the delivery of F-16s to Ukraine will change the situation? Because the American media claim these fihgter aircraft will supposedly have little impact...

- I've heard them say this about every weapon system sent to Ukraine.

In April of 2022, when I went on national TV I said that Ukraine needs the high mobility multiple rocket launch system, HIMARS, that was the first time anyone ever mentioned HIMARS for Ukraine. Eight weeks later, the HIMARS were shipped to Ukraine.

Back then, everyone also said that these systems would not change the game. But HIMARS did change the game, turned the tide on the battlefield.

They didn't give us the ATACMS, which was the next super weapon.

Weapon systems don't win war by themselves. They are integrated into a mash of capabilities that overwhelm the enemy.

Let's say you're attacking the Russian positions on the zero line, and you've got the Bradley fighting vehicle, but if the Russians don't have ammunition, because the night before the HIMARS rockets blew up all of their ammunition dumps. And that morning, the ATACMS blows up a Russian command and control base for the entire brigade or division…

Ukraine is using all the capabilities that it has, but it keeps its distance from Russia.

The F-16 with the AMRAAM missile will give us a new dimension. The separation will now be 100 kilometers. Russian fighter aircraft or cruise missiles will be shot down. Because the F-16 can go up with five or 10 of these missiles and shoot into Russian airspace.

Integrated into Ukraine's air defense system, using AMRAAM, they will be able to intercept Russian Kinzhals and go after bombers and fighters.

Maybe one or two F-16 at very, very low altitude, using information from NATO, AWACS or air defense, can hit air targets at considerable depth.

The Russians have nothing like this.

Now you can push your air defense far out, over Russian lines. So the F-16 will make a difference.

- But the White House has set restrictions on the range the American weapons can be used…

- Now, my recommendation is no more restrictions on anything. Fight the war to win now. Give the Ukrainians anything they want, whatever they want.

There are people in the White House who think that this is still the Cold War.

For three months, Ukrainians killed every Russian artillery they could find. Russia is now bringing out artillery from the 1940s, using T-55s as artillery. It's just incredible how badly we hurt the Russians now because of ATACMS and U.S. radars that we gave them to hunt artillery. They don't like to go near the artillery. They prefer shooting it from across the border, like they do targeting Kharkiv. But I think that killing Russian artillery was just as effective as trying to take back land, they cannot replace these weapon systems.

Ukraine is the world leader in drone warfare, especially in FPV drone warfare. You're going to be begging Ukrainians to show you how to do it.

So, again, I think that Ukraine has a chance for victory, not negotiated settlements.

As they go, oh, well, Russia will attack if we do this. And I go, we did that. They didn't attack. But what escalation are you talking about? What are they going to do? Invade Ukraine? How much more escalation is there?

Threatening London? So, ignore them…

- Have you been following the sinking of Russian Navy ships?

- I'd spent years in the U.S. Navy. I've been in naval combat. I survived an antiship missile attack. I was on a ship that hit a mine.

So I enjoy watching how Ukraine just slaughters the Russian Navy. And now they're out of ships. Next is to make those drones hunt for submarines. I swear to God, Ukrainians will be passing on lessons to the United States.

Our Armed Forces do not understand what a real war is. This is a real war.

Volodymyr Ilchenko, New York

Photos by the author and provided by Malcolm Nance