Vitaliy Motsnyy, AFU Sergeant

Military service members with injuries or disabilities should be legislatively entitled to return to the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) ranks if they wish so. They can contribute a lot to the army: support security efforts, improve the training of young soldiers, share their skills and knowledge and prepare them for what they will have to face at the front line.

This opinion was shared in a Victory Commanders series interview with Ukrainform by Vitaliy Motsnyy, alias Texas, a junior sergeant at a strike unmanned aerial systems platoon.

Vitaliy went through one of the hottest battles of this war – the battle of Bakhmut. It was there where he suffered a severe injury that later left him with both his legs amputated. Doctors declared him unfit for service, but he, however – after a bilateral amputation and having his missing legs replaced with prothetic ones – returned to the army ranks.

Currently, Vitaliy Motsnyy is training UAV pilots. In this edition of the Victory Commanders series of interviews by Ukrinform, read and watch about the path the hero has passed, where he thinks the focus should be on in training new soldiers, the deployment by the AFU of UAVs and ground robotic systems,  and the challenges of uncontrolled circulation of firearms to be dealt with after the war is over.

- After you sustained severe injuries, doctors declared you unfit for military service, but this despite you continued to defend our country. Were you persuaded against this decision?

- Yes, indeed, I was, and continue to be even now. Basically, an amputation is something that prevents you from living a normal life, let alone serving in the military. Most people are saying that that should be it for me, that I have already paid my debt to society. I don’t know why, but my conscience tells me that I must not stop there, it is pushing me forward, gets me to move on. And, I believe, I still can do a lot, be helpful in many ways.

- What motives you the most, motivated you to remain in the army ranks?

- My first motive is to protect my family and the loved ones, as well as the country’s citizens as a whole. Like a commander of mine said once, our generation have not so much a burden but perhaps more of a privilege – an opportunity to prove by our example how much we respect and love our country and our nearest and dearest.

- What was February 24, 2022 like for you, and how did events unfold for you?

- It was seemingly a completely ordinary morning, but it did not start the way it usually did. Lots of people from among my friends did not hesitate for long to visit military recruitment offices asking to be enlisted into the military. I did a little bit differently, given that in my civilian life prior to the full-scale invasion, my first hobby was precision shooting. Because I knew that I had personal weapons. Looking at huge queues at military enlistment offices, I immediately began looking for groups of people who self-organized to provide immediate defense for our city.

- So you began your path not as member of the Armed Forces, but of these groups of people?

- Yes, that’s true. We had checkpoints set up on approaches to the city, including those set up by our territorial defense forces, particularly the 118th Territorial Defense Brigade, the one which I eventually joined. At first, I acted as a volunteer helping at these checkpoints. Because at military enlistment and recruitment offices at that time, there were not enough weapons for everyone, and far from everyone were recruited. The main reason given for the refusal to recruite was that the amount of weapons available at that time could not suffice for all the people wanting them. Knowing that I had weapons of my own (at that time, it was pretty quickly permitted to defend the country with personal weapons in hands), I immediately went where I was needed.

- What kind of weapons do you have?

- At that time, I owned a pump-action shotgun, the Remington 783 .308 caliber, which is the initial weapon for precision shooting, actually a sniper weapon.

- Tell me about when you joined the army as a full-fledged fighter and what tasks you were assigned to perform.

- I was enlisted to serve in the Armed Forces of Ukraine on a fully-fledged basis beginning from mid-summer 2022. At that period in time, events were developing quickly, and as early in August I got to the Eastern front.

- How did your passion for weapons help you in real-world combat scenarios?

- Current realities of war are such that it would be untrue to say that passion for weapons alone is what helps you in military service. Nearly each skill a person masters in civilian life will anyway be useful when serving in the Armed Forces. Given my possession and knowledge of weapons, I served as unit’s marksman.  The only thing I would like to note in this context is that at that time, a specialty such as marksmanship was no longer in high demand as the foundations for the use of unmanned aerial technologies began to be laid down, and not only aerial, but also ground drone technologies began to evolve. I served as a marksman, mostly protecting aerial reconnaissance crews with cover-up fire.

- Tell us more about the specifics of marksmanship. You are the first marksman to be interviewed as part of Ukrinform’s Victory Commanders project.

- I will note that it turned out to be not that classic, this because the skills I had learned, such as adjustments for wind and other factors, did not turn out to be of much use. After all, the marksmanship job presupposes that a duo of marksmen would go out to work on specific sections of the front line, search for targets, set up the places to work at. But again, the marksmanship job is more about covering aerial reconnaissance teams from potential attacks. That is, two marksmen would go out, set up a place to work at, from where an unmanned aerial vehicle would take off. And the role of mine and that of a machine gunner would be mainly to monitor the approaches to the place where an aerial reconnaissance team are working.

- Does your call sign Texas have any relation to your fascination with weapons?

- Yes it does. The call sign Texas proper came about one day when we were discussing options for gun possession legislation for Ukraine, comparing it against the backdrop of similar legislations in other countries. And as always happens with us, the United States was the first country to compare with. Since the state of Texas is one of the most liberal in terms of firearms possession, in terms of the limitations to which the use of personal firearms is considered lawful or not, my preferable option would be for Ukraine to have a legislation similar to that in the state of Texas. This is where the call sign came from.

- Do you think Ukraine ready to allow civilian firearms to circulate as freely [as in Texas]?

- Looking at how citizens who owned firearms before the full-scale invasion put into practice the skills they acquired before the war, I believe that our society is basically ready for the introduction of more liberal rules for gun possession. Again, owning a firearm as such can have a pretty positive effect on a person, making him or her more disciplined. Weapons do not like to be handled in a relaxed manner, without due responsibility. And it is often the case that they punish those who do otherwise.

- What do you mean by saying “punish”?

- We are not talking about the situations where people may kill or injure themselves accidentally. For example, if you do something wrong, this can end up with injuries as a result of this, you can get a finger hit by moving parts of the weapon and suchlike things. And again, if a person joins the community of firearms owners, then accordingly, if you do something wrong, mishandle a weapon, the community will be constantly reminding you of that.

- But lots of people are opposing the freedom of firearms ownership. What arguments could you offer against it?

- If a citizen is looking for ways to acquire a firearm unlawfully, there are no barriers for him to find them, that is, it is not that difficult to do if you are moved by a specific motivation. And nearly all offenders who have some criminal intentions involving firearms, usually use unregistered weapons, the ones they acquired unlawfully. If we talk about how often officially registered weapons are used in committing unlawful actions of some kind or another, I asked this questions to the police, and they said that there is very small percentage of instances where illegal actions are committed using lawfully possessed firearms. That is to say that this is more about a search for some reasonable alternatives. Lots of incidents could not have happened if the offender clearly understood that he would be resisted, and especially where the resistance would involve the use of firearms possessed lawfully.

- After the war ends, after our victory is achieved, after soldiers return from war, this will probably be a hot topic for discussion among the society and politicians. We understand that part of the civilian population already have problems with mental health and reactions, how we take people surrounding us, take the situation where firearms are circulated in great quantities without due control. What’s your thought about this?

- Look, if we get back a little bit and talk about a basically more liberal legislation on gun possession, we are not talking about giving them away freely with no restrictions. Understandably enough, in order to possess a firearm lawfully, on, a person must necessarily go through specific stages. If the seizure of unlawfully possessed firearms is approached rationally and intelligently, this will significantly reduce the uncontrolled circulation of firearms, because for now, as far as I can tell, what is suggested is that people should come and hand them away voluntarily by themselves, but people are still apprehensive of the consequences this can have for them. It is therefore unclear how the process of giving away unregistered firearms will be organized. The community of gun owners are speaking in favor of a practice where the government pays an owner a specific price as a compensation for the cost of the firearms being given away, and accordingly, citizens should be certain that, if they give away some trophy weapon or the one they found somewhere abandoned, they will not be punished for this. But that said, under particular circumstances, giving away a firearm, even voluntarily, can be punishable under criminal law.

- You are known to have partaken in the battle of Bakhmut. Tell us about this battle, about what was it like for you, about the most difficult periods of the battle.

- To me, the toughest thing was knowing that, at any moment, any of your comrades may never return from a combat mission or return injured. This was probably the toughest thought for me to accept. These feelings are behind what is currently driving us forward, helping us better understand what we are fighting for. That is why we are seeking to ensure that our cadets are trained to the maximum extent possible in terms of support with technical know-how, in terms of the knowledge they will need in future military service, in order to facilitate their adaptation to the conditions they will face in conducting combat operations. They are doing it perfectly, almost fully automatically, just need to get some additional psychological training.

- Were you worried more about yourself or your comrades?

- Everyone firmly believe that the worst cannot happen to them. And even realizing that the worst can still happen, you immediately separate yourself from everyone else. Accordingly, you worry more about those surrounding you than about yourself, and you only worry about yourself when something bad happens to you. It is then when you begin worrying about what will follow.

- You served as a scout during the battle of Bakhmut. What tasks did you perform out there?

- The main task was to pre-scout the locations of enemy forces, their movements, and their actions. At that time, the deployment of unmanned aerial capabilities was still at the inception stage. Regardless of the role you played within your unit, you had to have at least a basic knowledge of how to pilot a drone, be able to replace the main or co-pilot if something happens to them, that is, to be able to do their job.

- Did you have to go behind enemy lines when serving as a scout?

- At that time at Bakhmut, the front line was fluctuating and, accordingly, it was sometimes hard to understand whether you were on your own territory or enemy’s territory, so you could easily find yourself in hostile territory.

- You sustained a severe injury while fighting on the Bakhmut front. Tell us about that day, how it happened?

- Yes, I was injured when fighting on the outskirts of Bakhmut. We went out for an aerial reconnaissance mission, completed it successfully, and, when already on the way back to base, we came under mortar fire; a projectile hit the vehicle we were driving in. My comrade and I were sitting in the back of the pickup truck, just where the projectile struck. I sustained injuries to both legs, while my comrade was injured by projectile fragments. He was lucky to escape critical injuries, has already returned to the frontline.

- When and how were you evacuated?

- We were evacuated in the same vehicle. Fortunately, my comrade did not sustain critical injuries. Later on, I went through several hospitals, but it was not until I arrived in Dnipro that I began receiving full-fledged treatment and rehabilitation. In my case, the treatment was fully correct, highly professional, I am hugely grateful to the doctors who treated me.

- Do you remember your condition at that moment? What was it like - shock, fear, stress?

- It was probably in Dnipro. The first 10 minutes after I woke up from anesthesia - it was a bit of a shock, because I clearly understood that walking would be pretty problematic, because I had already got both my legs amputated. I was talking to myself, presupposing that this -- the loss of limbs – could possibly happen. But sometime after half an hour I made a clear decision that I definitely want back to service, want to undergo rehabilitation treatment and prosthetics as soon as practicable. And from that moment on, I no longer thought about what will follow, why it happened; I clearly defined for myself the direction to move on, and from that time on, I am moving towards the goal that I set for myself.

- Is it true to say that just half an hour after waking up from anesthesia, you already had a plan for your future life, had realized that you wanted to return back to service?

- Yes, that’s true.

- How were you returning? What was the most difficult thing for you to do in the process?

- Basically, the whole process of treatment took some seven or eight months. All the doctors who were treating me, beginning from the hospital in Dnipro, proved highly professional. Later on I was lucky enough to end up for further treatment in my hometown of Cherkasy. I was faced with a choice between prosthetics in Ukraine and prosthetics in a foreign country. I was aware that a trip abroad by itself will add significantly to the duration of rehabilitation treatment and prosthetics, and during this time, I would most likely be discharged from service in the Armed Forces. That was what made me choose in favor of getting prosthetics and undergoing rehabilitation in Ukraine. I decided to choose in favor of Vinnytsia; when there, I got prosthetics relatively quickly, and the rehabilitation and prosthetics doctors were the highest level professionals, did as much as they could for me. When you announce your intention to return to service with your unit, the amount of support and help provided to you grows several times.

- What would you advise those soldiers who are just going through the rehabilitation process about how not to lose the will to live, how to remain strong and motivated after what had happened to them?

- To think as little as possible about what you did wrong to end up in this situation, think as little as possible that things could have happened differently, feel sorry for yourself as little as possible, because even a bilateral amputation above the knees does not make your life significantly different. You can live, work, and have fun just as you did before. Therefore, the sooner you stop feeling sorry for yourself and thinking about what has already passed, but instead make plans for the future, the better for you, and the faster your wounds will heal and the faster your physical strength will recover, because it is you yourself who is getting your body out of this stressed state. Moreover, if those surrounding you see and understand that you have a goal and are systematically moving towards it, they help you more than if you would withdraw into yourself and sit around feeling sorry for yourself.

- Our society is changing, but are we doing enough to ensure that people whom the war left crippled and disabled do not feel forgotten, but instead feel like full-fledged members of society?

- I can see that our society is moving towards improving lives of people with disabilities. Considering how our cities were built and in what condition they are now, they still need quite a lot of improvements, because very few institutions, including government agencies, have entrances to their buildings equipped for people with disabilities. Some are kind of adapted to the needs of disabled people, but it is often the case that these ramps, steps, handrails, etc. cannot be used as intended. You know, a healthy person cannot fully appreciate what a person with disabilities needs; two or three steps, which are no problem for a healthy person, can become an insurmountable obstacle for people with physical disabilities. Therefore, my opinion is that it is necessary to establish an independent body to monitor the enforcement of relevant rules and regulations and to propose projects to make cities as a whole and specific buildings in particular more friendly to people with physical disabilities.

Regarding other aspects, I would really like those servicemen who lost some limbs or something else, for example, to be given more employments in the active army. Because there is not always a place for them to continue in service. These are often highly motivated people who could do quite a lot for the army in the future, help in bolstering security efforts and, again, improve the training level of newly drafted soldiers, so that people who understand what they will have to face in the future can share this knowledge and get the trainees prepared, at least partially, for what they will face in the future.

- Do you think that a person, after being treated for war injuries, can continue in military service and be useful for the army?

- They definitely can if they so wish. Because, again, it is not always the case that soldiers who are willing to return to service with their original units are given such an opportunity after returning from sick leave, because it is not everywhere where it is legally possible, let's say so. I would therefore like to see the legislated possibility for military men to return to the unit they served with previously if they so wish. After all, the army is not just about combat operations; there is an incredibly huge number of positions and areas in which a person can be useful, a person without legs, for example, like me. A person without an arm, in particular, could be employed with a military recruitment office, as an instructor, in a very broad variety of capacities. 

 - Your example is an exception to this generalization. Do you know of similar examples where people returned to the units they served with previously? Do legislative changes need to be made to make this option easier, more realistic? Was it difficult for you to return?

- Fortunately, as far as I personally am concerned, I met understanding from both my immediate commander and the brigade commander regarding my wish to return. Again, if a man is motivated, he himself begins exploring areas to apply his skills and knowledge. Why not where appropriate? But such examples are not numerous, unfortunately. Most such men will probably be found transferred to work at a military recruitment center, for instance. But it matters that they are allowed an opportunity to continue in service within their original brigades. I know that many want to, but not everyone have been able to make it to where they wanted to serve.

- I want to ask you a few more questions regarding the initiatives that are currently being discussed among the society. In particular, reports came that the duration of the basic military training will be extended to 45 days from 30 days previously. Do you think this will suffice to get new recruits trained as appropriate? How much time is actually needed to get a man prepared for the challenges he will face on the battlefield?

- Well, as I understand it, the basic military training (BMT) period does not mean at all that a person, having completed this basic training program, immediately gets into a combat unit and is sent to fight in the East. In many instances, servicemen, after completing this BMT course, are sent for more specialized training. With us, for example, people come to get an additional one-month specialized training course in how to pilot an aerial drone, handle the equipment for tracking down drone targets, operate and deploy electronic countermeasures, and to operate robotic ground vehicles. As far as the duration of training is concerned, the training can be endless, because there are no limits to perfection in any profession.  If a person undergoing basic military training understands that the skills and knowledge he will acquire during this training course can help him survive in a battle, then, I believe, this will basically suffice. But if a man is not motivated enough to absorb the skills and knowledge provided to him, then even two or three months of training will be spent in vain.

- There were also media reports saying that Ukraine has developed a drone to counter Shahed class of strike UAV’s used by Russia for overnight attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure. What do you think of this initiative? Can UAVs be effective in counter-drone aerial combat?

- This problem is large-scale and many fold. I believe that we definitely need to move on in this direction and move as quickly as possible. Basically, this is wholly possible in theory, and in practical terms, in my opinion, unmanned capabilities need to be developed as quickly and massively as possible. Because this would allow soldiers on the battlefield to stay away from places where their health and life are at risk. And the loss of a drone, even though this would inflict a financial damage to both the relevant UAV unit and the national economy as a whole, cannot compare to the loss of a solder’s life, not only in financial terms. Therefore, the more unmanned capabilities are available to us, the better.

- You mentioned that you had experience operating UAVs during combat missions, but, as I understand it, you started specializing in this particular domain after recovering from injury, didn’t you?

- After the injury, I clearly understood that I as a marksman, for example, have nowhere to move forward in terms of self-fulfillment, got in a dead end in this respect. So I began exploring ways to be useful in my future. While in a hospital in Cherkasy, I, with the help of friends, purchased a small FPV drone and began training myself, and deepened this knowledge further when undergoing follow-up rehabilitation treatment. And when already back in my unit, I came armed with a stock of knowledge, along with a plan to apply this knowledge to my future work. And this is how what is now known as the Unmanned Systems Operator Training Center subsequently came about.

- Tell us a little more about your work at the training center, what you are doing there, how this idea came about, and how you organize this work.

- Generally speaking, the idea originated from the fact that the FPV drones received often actually were not able to reach the area of fighting, because the pilots were not qualified enough to use the potential inherent in these drones to its full extent. This gave rise to the idea that personnel necessarily need to be trained before they receive first drones. To this end, our unit, assisted by the Cherkasy-based company Skaner, organized a school for training UAV operators. Later on, other volunteers joined in, among them the international foundation Our Battalion, which helped us significantly in terms of funding. As a result, we currently have the capacity to provide training for 40 people at all the same time. We are currently also providing training in operation of ground military drones, encompassing mine laying techniques,  evacuation of wounded  casualties from the battlefield, as well as logistics operations, particularly for the delivery of ammunition and food supplies to locations that would otherwise be dangerous to reach. A ground drone can do this with ease. There is a new direction in which we are currently investing most of our efforts and energies, which is training in wireless communication. This is aimed to ensure that not only soldiers know how to operate an FPV drone or a ground robot, but also understand the principles on which they operate, know how to continue the mission even where a minor malfunction or contingency occurs.

- Where is your focus when training new pilots? What principles and methods do you include in your training program?

- We take a pretty loyal approach to our trainees, aiming to explain to them why they should help each other first of all, striving to foster a robust and united team. Because a pilot or a navigator, for example, if there is a lack of coordination, of understanding within the team, then the effectiveness of his work will get hampered. A pilot can fly a drone like a God, but if he is given a task he does not fully understand, if he is not explained in explicit terms what goal is to be achieved, he will do the task as he understands it. Therefore, the more the team is united, the more it is involved to achieve the same goals, the better results will be achieved and the fewer errors will occur.  And, of course, we aim to give them as much knowledge as possible, the knowledge that will be helpful in their future practice, so that all operations are perfected to automatism, and if they are given a specific task, they would not have difficulties performing it. If you need to get a drone reconfigured for a new task, then again, this should not come as a surprise or problem. Where a broadcast of some kind needs to be organized and prepared, they should be able to do this all, know the process, know how to adapt to the terrain a drone is travelling over, to adapt to frontline fluctuations, to changes in the battlefield situation. Regarding the technical skills that they need to learn, they must be made automatic to the highest degree possible.

- What is your thought about whether the potential of UAV technologies has been fully revealed? Do you have any ideas as to new potential applications for these technologies?

- My assessment is that we have not reached even a middle point in the development of drone technologies, both for aerial and ground usage, but rather are at the inception stage. Because, by and large, everything we use is initially designed for civilian use. That is, these are not military-grade products, and so I believe that we need to move forward as fast as possible, move on in developing technologies specifically tailored for military use, because the majority of the drones (perhaps 90 percent or more) we currently use are based on technologies imported from China. Generally speaking, everything we are currently using was developed more as a hobby, not for war, and therefore, I believe, we need to move towards military-grade developments as fast as possible. I would like those engineers who are currently working developing new FPV drone technologies to have more communication within their community, to learn from each other and share their knowledge and expertise, to think less in terms of profits and more in terms of a common victory, to scale up new successful solutions as much as possible.

- The victory of Ukraine, the one every Ukrainian dreams of… What would a victory mean for you, and do you have any wishes, plans, dreams for the day when the war ends in Ukraine? How do you see the future for our country?

- Where the talk is about the country, then the first and perhaps the most important thing is to see it truly united, all working for one common goal, that is to win, to make our country stronger and more powerful.  As far as I personally is concerned, my future work is concerned, I hope I will continue working in the domain of unmanned technologies, because, as we have seen already, learning, training, preparing, bolstering our country’s ability to defend itself is a pretty complicated and costly business to do while at war. And I believe that we need to learn appropriate lessons from this and make preparations to ensure the state is protected to maxim extent possible, is technically equipped to address any security challenges it may encounter in the future while remaining a peaceful country, so that in the future we are an inconvenient target for any potential invasion.

- Finally, I would like you to answer a series of rapid-fire questions. I ask you brief questions, you answer just as briefly, OK? Who is your hero?

- A hero is one who, without thinking about himself, fulfills a goal that meets the interests of the majority.

- Can one person change the course of history?

- I think so, because each of us actually makes little changes to the course of history, and the more of us make appropriate decisions – even individually, this all combined will have its effect.

- What is your greatest fear in life?

- That my son will have to go to war.

- What is the greatest reward for you?

- I don’t know, let it be the support from my family and loved ones.

- What will you do first after the victory?

- Take a week-long rest.

- What will you never be able to forgive?

- I don’t know, there probably is no such thing.

- Your life credo?

- As banal as it sounds, do to others as you would like to be done to you.

- What thought do you wake up with?

- I don’t remember how it used to be previously, but now I am reluctant to put on my artificial legs.

- What does freedom mean to you?

- This is probably what we are currently fighting for, being free to choose where to live, how to live, who to live with, free to choose in general.

Interviewed by Diana Slavinska

Watch the full video of the interview on the Ukrinform TV channel