Yağmur Ahmet Güldere, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Republic of Türkiye to Ukraine

Last five years of Ukrainian-Turkish relations have been dynamic, successful and full of events of historical importance. In particular, we are talking about the purchase and supply of Bayraktars to Ukraine, the creation of the Quadriga format, the signing of the Free Trade Agreement, the active expansion of cooperation in the military and technical spheres, the growth of bilateral trade and others. The pandemic and the large-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine also took place during in this period.

During this entire period, Ambassador of Türkiye in Ukraine was a career diplomat, a graduate of one of the most prestigious higher educational institutions in Türkiye, Mr. Yağmur Ahmet Güldere. Ukrinform talked to His Excellency about the results of his diplomatic term before leaving Kyiv.

CHALLENGES AND EMERGENCIES ONLY STRENGTHEN OUR FRIENDSHIP AND BROTHERHOOD

- Mr.Ambassador, many important, even historical events occurred during your term in office. What do you see as your greatest achievements in your tenure in Ukraine? Is there anything you’re particularly proud of?

- First of all I would like to say that it is has been an honour and privilege to be serve here as the Turkish Ambassador. Throughout these almost 5 years all I have seen from Ukraine was always hospitality, cooperation and good will. If you don’t find such an atmosphere in your host country, it doesn't matter how capable an ambassador you are, your achievements will be limited. So I would like to start by thanking my Ukrainian friends and counterparts who have always done their best to reciprocate what we have been trying to do.

As you mentioned, there were a few significant things which took place during my period in office. But I can’t call them personal achievements because Turkish-Ukrainian relations are quite huge and complex, and every moment something else is happening. The Free Trade Agreement was signed and I am very happy that it happened while I was here, because I know that the actual potential of Turkish-Ukrainian economic cooperation possibilities is immense and without maximizing the opportunities with such an agreement, we are just tying each other’s hands. It is not in force yet, internal ratification process is still going on at both sides.

And we also had a really tough time during the pandemic. We tried not to stop our normal diplomatic duties, but our job during pandemic was also similar to disaster management.  During that difficult period we had great cooperation with our Ukrainian friends. I remember how Türkiye sent medical aid to Ukraine (medical gadgets, masks, disinfectants, etc.) and how met them in Boryspil airport with my colleague from Ankara Vasyl Bodnar, who was a deputy minister at that time.

And when the war started, everything turned upside down. Once again, very difficult times… Since the outset of the war, the Turkish nation, and the Turkish government stood side by side with Ukraine. And then the devastating earthquake disaster happened in Türkiye and this time Ukraine sent a strong team for search and rescue operations. These crises tested  and confirmed our strong friendship, our brotherhood. 

- Has your vision of Ukraine, Ukrainians, and Turkish-Ukrainian relations changed over the years? How exactly?

- I wouldn’t say that it changed. Before being appointed as Ambassador here, I was working as Deputy Director for Eastern Europe at the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I was part of bilateral meetings at the highest level. I had the chance to come to Kyiv several times. So I already had a general conception when I came here. But of course, coming here for a few days is one thing, living here and going through all these tough times is something else. Looking back, I can easily say that all I went through here only reconfirmed my initial conviction that Türkiye and Ukraine are destined for cooperation. Our economies complement one another, we have so many opportunities to utilize together in different fields - from agriculture to tourism. This war obviously has changed the nature of our interaction in fields like economy, but despite this, last year our trade broke a record even without the Free Trade Agreement in force - We had a trade turnover of almost 8 billion dollars.

These are clear signals that everything will only get better and stronger in all spheres - from defence to tourism, from agriculture to construction, from joint production to joint investments. We have a huge potential and I hope that we will be able to utilize this potential in the time ahead.

- The Embassy of Türkiye was one of the last ones to suspend operations in Kyiv after the large-scale invasion. You personally remained in Kyiv for as long as possible. Why so? Had you hoped that the big war would never happen or was it a show of support?

- Except for the three Ambassadors who didn't leave Kyiv, I was the last to leave and first to return. We stayed here till March 11th and we returned on April 5th. The main reason for this is that we had a job to do. That job was the safe evacuation of Turkish citizens. When the war started, we had around 24-25 thousand Turkish citizens here. We realized the evacuation of 18 thousand people under the leadership of our headquarters in Ankara. The initial part of this operation was finished by the time we temporarily moved to Chernivtsi. 

At the same time we were in touch with our Ukrainian friends to find a diplomatic solution. We hosted the meetings in Antalya and Istanbul to do our part in terms of finding a diplomatic solution.

ONE OF OUR PRIORITIES NOW IS THE RATIFICATION OF THE FREE TRADE AGREEMENT

- The Free Trade Agreement between our countries was signed a few weeks before Russia unleashed the war. How are things progressing towards its ratification by the two parliaments? It was also mentioned that the document could be amended in view of the impact of the war on Ukraine’s economy. Is this actually set to be done?

- We are in touch on this issue with relevant Ukrainian authorities. The agreement itself is under the process of ratification at both sides. Since the agreement has already been signed, I believe that we should prioritize ratification first. When it comes to amending the agreement, we obviously see and understand that there are now extraordinary circumstances in Ukraine and the conditions are much more different compared to the time when this agreement was signed. But we do have the necessary tools in our hands to address this. This is not a static agreement. It has provisions that allow the parties to make adjustments and changes if needed. I am sure that our experts will be able to come to a mutual understanding .

OUR CONTACTS REGARDING THE RENEWAL OF THE GRAIN INITIATIVE ARE CONTINUING

- Türkiye has undertaken significant efforts to launch and maintain the "grain corridor". But no breakthrough was made during President Erdoğan’s latest visit to Sochi. In your opinion, is it possible to revive the Black Sea Grain Initiative in the nearest future?

- We think that the grain initiative can be revived. Our relevant departments are in touch with their counterparts. As you know, this initiative came to reality based on Türkiye’s cooperation with the UN, Ukraine and Russia. As such, our contacts with all these actors continue. We are also in touch with other parties who also can play a role in revitalization of the deal. Yes, we are currently at a point where some people regard this corridor as “gone”. But we think this is not the case, and we continue our diplomatic efforts to revitalize it. 

DEFENSE INDUSTRIES OF UKRAINE AND TÜRKİYE HAVE SIGNIFICANT POTENTIAL FOR COOPERATION

- At the outset of the war, Turkish Bayraktars became a real legend in Ukraine. Now, cooperation with the Baykar company is actively developing. When will the first Ukraine-produced drones potentially come off the assembly line? How is the project moving?

- During his last visit to Kyiv, the CEO of Baykar company has shared some information about the current state of the investment, size of the investment and date goals that they have in mind. I wouldn't want to make any other comment because it is their factory. But what I want to underline as the Ambassador in Kyiv is that even before being appointed here, I knew from my previous position that there is an amazing cooperation potential between Türkiye and Ukraine’s defence industries. The contacts between our defence industries started long ago, both between official bodies and private companies. And I am sure that these will continue to grow further because this is an area where our sectors complement one another. There are many products in which reciprocal elements are used. For instance, drones with Ukrainian engines. There were items that our countries were producing together and then exporting to third countries. So defence industry is a very special area where our countries will cooperate even more in the future. Strong Turkish participation in the defence forum in Kyiv a few weeks ago was a clear demonstration of our willingness to realize this potential together with our Ukrainian partners.

TÜRKİYE'S ACTIONS ON THE "GRAIN CORRIDOR" ARE NOT LOBBYING THE INTERESTS OF RUSSIA

- Recently Türkiye has been actively lobbying for certain projects that are ultimately beneficial to Russia. This includes Russian gas transmission to Europe through the Turkish hub and the easing of sanctions for agricultural exports through the "grain corridor". What is the reason for this and would you agree with the assumption that such initiatives (as opposed to the actions of Western nations) could strengthen Russia economically to continue war in Ukraine?

- First, I would like to make a clarification about the energy issue. We have been focusing for many years on diversification of sources and suppliers. Another priority was becoming an energy hub. Because as you know, there are energy resources to the east of us and there is a great demand from the west. So it is natural for us to act as a hub and provide our contribution to regional energy security. Let me underline again that this approach did not come up 2-3 months ago. If country A or country B comes to us with a proposal, we of course look at it. Characterizing this as “actively lobbying” for someone or contributing to the development of another country's capability is taking this purely economic issue to a completely different level.

When it comes to "easing sanctions" for the grain corridor, as you put it, here there are a few things such as reintegration of the Russian agricultural bank into the SWIFT system. I don't think this means weakening of so-called sanctions regime, because this trade is already happening, and by taking this step, we will move towards reviving the grain corridor, which is beneficial for Ukraine too. 

We also have to understand that the grain corridor is a global issue because it helps with stability of grain supply on a global scale. Billions of people are directly affected by the availability or non-availability of grain and fertilizer from Ukraine and Russia. That is why we are doing our best with the United Nations to see if the deal can be revived. By the way, it is also useful for Ukraine, as Ukraine has exported over 33 millions tons of its grain through this corridor.

TÜRKİYE IS ALWAYS READY TO PLAY ITS ROLE IN ACHIEVING A JUST PEACE

- Türkiye has repeatedly stated its readiness – and taken practical steps (negotiations in Antalya and Istanbul) – to facilitate peace talks and provide a platform for achieving a just peace, with respect for Ukraine’s territorial integrity and sovereignty. Ankara also has repeatedly called for a ceasefire. Recently, statements were voiced that Russia is supposedly ready for peace talks, but also that this war will be a long one. How does Türkiye see the peace process? Is there really a vision that in the event of a ceasefire, Russia will withdraw its troops from occupied territories?

- Obviously when we talk about negotiations, this is a process. And without the talks actually taking place, it will be premature to say what the possible outcome will be. When we are talking about ceasefire, our main priority is of course the end of suffering of the people who are affected by the warfare. That is why our President has been saying that there is no loser in peace, and there is no winner in war. Based on this understanding, from the very start of the war, we have been looking at the possibility for silencing the guns, and then creating the conditions for a just, sustainable and lasting peace in our region. Serving in Türkiye, you understand how much this impacts us as well. Same goes for other countries. So, that is why if there is a chance for us to contribute to reaching a diplomatic solution, we always will be ready to play our part.

- The meeting of the Ukrainian and Russian ombudspersons through Türkiye’s mediation took place in Ankara early this year. The lists of civilians (in particular, the elderly and the sick) illegally held by Russia were handed over during the meeting. There were also reports that Türkiye was allegedly providing assistance toward the release of children abducted by Russia. The issue of the release of prisoners (civilian and military) was set to be raised at the Erdoğan-Putin meeting in Sochi. Does work continue to this end now? Was the said question raised at the Sochi meeting, and what was the response?

- This is a very important and sensitive issue. Having well-functioning channels of dialogue with both countries, we are eager to contribute to this issue. There are previous examples where we facilitated such exchanges. I obviously wouldn’t disclose any specifics,but I can confirm that we continue to work in this direction. As you understand, this requires a lot of discreet talks and coordination. Because of this, we will be grateful if we can work without the flashlights pointed in our direction.

TÜRKIYE AND TURKISH BUSINESS ARE READY TO TAKE AN ACTIVE PARTICIPATION IN THE RECONSTRUCTION OF UKRAINE

- Turkish companies continue to operate rather actively in Ukraine despite the ongoing war. They are also ready to share their experience with other countries, including to restore our country after the war ends. What are the main projects that are currently being implemented and on what scale? Also, what are the plans for post-war reconstruction?

- Let me start by expressing my appreciation of the Turkish companies who stayed in Ukraine after the war started. They both continued their normal construction efforts, and also realized many social responsibility projects, like providing housing and food to people in need. Onur Construction, based in Lviv, is one of them. It was a pleasure for me to be awarded by President Zelenskyy together with owner of the company Mr. OnurÇetinceviz, because this shows appreciation from the Ukrainian side to the work of the Turkish companies. This company is working on reconstruction of the famous bridge in Irpin too.

There are other Turkish companies which realize other projects, but what we see today is actually a very small part of what we want to do. We are in coordination with the Ukrainian side about an event where we will bring together Turkish and Ukrainian officials and private sectors to discuss cooperation regarding post-war reconstruction. I am sure that Turkish companies, with their great experience in your country, are going to be one of the key partners of Ukraine during the reconstruction works. Turkish construction companies are a global brand. There are no limits to the projects we can implement. We are talking about infrastructure projects, construction of roads and bridges, restoration of infrastructure, etc. I have been in different parts of Ukraine after the war, and there is massive work to be done. Having been here during the war, we will be here after the war too, on a much bigger scale, to heal the wounds and rebuild Ukraine together.

TÜRKIYE WILL SUPPORT UKRAINE EVEN AFTER THE WAR

- Mr. Ambassador, Türkiye has been helping Ukraine and Ukrainians with humanitarian aid since the first days of the large-scale Russian invasion. Children from the Sonechko orphanage in Odesa found shelter in Ankara, and there are other examples. We are grateful for your support and help. Please tell us more about these projects.

- We actually started humanitarian support programs before the war. Every year, we were hosting children affected by the situation in Donbas for rehabilitation in summer. This program is going on today in different formats. As you mentioned, kids from Odesa and other parts of Ukraine are currently hosted in Türkiye. Within the framework of the program established by our First Ladies EmineErdoğan and OlenaZelenska, we are hosting about 1,7 thousand people – of which 1,2 thousand are kids. 

Going back to the early days of the war, in total we sent more than one hundred trucks of humanitarian assistance to Ukraine. We also had a mobile kitchen truck from AFAD, which provided free food for thousands of Ukrainians for many months. It started in Lviv, then functioned in Kyiv, Borodyanka, Chernihiv. There was also a vehicle of aid distribution from Turkish Red Crescent, Kızılay. We also provided a lot of medical equipment sent by our Ministry of Health. We sent hundreds of generators to different parts of Ukraine through TIKA. We also remember how Ukraine stood by us after the tragic earthquake and sent a large rescue team. 

Until the end of this war, our humanitarian assistance will continue. After the war, our cooperation and assistance will turn into recovery and reconstruction cooperation.

Olha Budnyk, Ankara