On the Volunteers Day, Ukrinform meet with Pavlo, call sign “Garage”, officer at the 412th Nemesis Regiment. So we availed of the opportunity to talk also about the traditions of celebrating this Day. In between his busy schedule full of meetings and tasks, we managed to find a few minutes to talk. Pavlo stops his car, and says:

– Well, I’m ready, shall we start?

During our conversation, he doesn’t smile frequently. And, to be honest, we don’t have many reasons for joyful topics. He is talking explicitly and straightforwardly. However, the memories of his first combat experience and volunteer brotherhood seem to relieve the tension: his eyes sparkle and get warmer. Pavlo says that, over these years, his perception of the war and the war machine have changed fundamentally at least three times.

My interlocutor’s experience of warfighting is enormous. Judge for yourself. As Pavlo says, he has "never served in civil services or public administration", but now he is one of the leaders of the new military formation. He came from a business background, and it is business-like thinking that helps him in the war.

Pavlo considers himself a professional soldier. On the first day of the Great War, he joined the 130th Battalion of the Ukrainian Air Force as a rifleman, then he took the lead of a rifle platoon, and currently he is second in command of a drone warfare regiment. His combat experience includes the Battle of Kyiv and battles of Bakhmut in 2022 and 2023. During the Russian offensive on Klishchiivka, Pavlo was in command of a company tactical group of three companies within the 243rd Battalion. In January 2024, he and his entire company were transferred to serve as part of the 412th Nemesis Battalion, where Pavlo was appointed in command of a reconnaissance and strike drone unit. In December 2024, the Nemesis Battalion was reorganized into what is now the 412th Separate Unmanned Systems Regiment.

During its first year, the Regiment, fighting on all sections of the frontline, destroyed Russian equipment, including most valuable assets worth in excess of one billion dollars, ranging from a pontoon ferry in the direction of Luhansk to surface-to air-missile systems and air defense systems.

Our conversation was focused on topics related to the fundamental transformations and restructuring of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as well as the specifics of the new element to the Ukrainian army such as the drone warfare battalion, and the Volunteers Day served as an occasion for it.

VOLUNTEER SOLDIERS ARE ALSO SCARED, BUT THEY KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH IT

“When it all started in 2022, it was a huge shock, an enormous stress. Back then everything was clearly demarcated: there were those who decided to stand up for the defense of the country, and those who chose to flee. It was black and white. These were the initial days: hostile helicopters in Vyshhorod, airplanes in the Gostomel area, air combats. I thought that the moment to leave for a safe place was lost. That is, highways were clogged, it was safer to stay in the center of Kyiv, at home, considering that we had a shelter - an underground parking lot.

I realized that the air defense was most likely badly damaged, and that we could see these convoys entering Chernihiv, Chernobyl, were standing parked outside Kyiv.

Something had to be done. There were three of us friends. One of us had combat experience fighting in the ATO [Anti-Terrorist Operation], but his comrades-in-arms were already on the march, and the only service we could join was the Territorial Defense Forces. We thought that the Russians would come straight to Kyiv. We knew our area, we would unite, get weapons, ammunition and will be greeting them here. That is, we would be partisans, hypothetically speaking.

It was very scary. I can't even describe it. Never before had I been so afraid in my life. I wasn’t that afraid even when I first took part in a shooting fight. Because back then I just came and realized that I wouldn’t leave here. But in those first days I was scared to the extent I became nauseous. Well, nothing, I got used to it. Man is such a creature – he can get used to everything.

I believe that the people who joined the military at the beginning of this war, who volunteered, figured it out, found their place in the ranks – those people comprise an active layer of our society. And despite all the talk – most of us are alive and fighting.

The best organization I saw was in the Territorial Defense Company. It was one hundred percent manned with volunteers, not a single mobilized soldier was there. Can you imagine what kind of mood we were in? But we were ready to kill Russians even with shovels.

Our current army is a cross-section of society. Everything that is present in civilian life is also present in the army. Among my unit, there were three lawyers, two electricians, people from business related careers. I too came from a business background. Back then, everyone was charged with one goal - to repel the enemy. We must defend the country. This is a feeling that cannot be conveyed. In the Territorial Defense, it was felt especially strongly. Never again have I felt such volunteer zeal in the army as I did then.

DRONE WARFARE IS WHERE EVERYTHING CHANGES NOT ONCE A YEAR, BUT EVERY THREE MONTHS

Of course, the nature of the war is changing. I see it - it has already changed several times in different directions. The people who come to serve in the army have also changed. They have different motivations and views.

We have no unmotivated people in the 412th Nemesis Regiment. Those who come to serve with us consciously want to serve here, who know about the quality of the unit, of its commanding staff.  They are confident that the life and health of personnel is the number one priority for each commander. Perhaps their acquaintances or relatives serve here, who confirm: you can serve here with dignity.

Lots of servicemen who are transferred to us from other units are saying that they are comfortable serving here. Here there is a clear understanding of the tasks set and of the real impact they have on the battlefield situation. Mobilized people make a conscious decision, having the opportunity to choose a position that fits their civilian skills and experience or their own preferences. We try to make even combat units as safe as possible - no one sends people "to burn in flames", carrying out meaningless orders. Everything is carefully planned, provided for and thought out.

We do not encounter refusals due to orders that can end up in critical losses. There are always different options for performing tasks. In addition, we have a mandatory adaptation program. We strive to ensure that basic general military training is conducted at our own training grounds, or, where impossible, we send people for training at proven training centers, where our instructors are working among others. That is, from the first day we form a cohesive and high-quality team.

Our unit maintains its own philosophy, own traditions and understanding of work. Essentially, it is a corporate culture, albeit I would not like to call it that. We have a unique synergy of people from three domains – business industry, civil service and the military. There are also career military personnel, although there are not enough of them now. We integrate what other units do not have: the clarity of business organization, planning and control of processes with military regulations and service experience.

I consider myself a professional soldier. The three approaches -- military, state and business-like -- do not contradict but complement each other. Everything is clearly spelled out in the Armed Forces of Ukraine Service Regulations, but we add adequate performance standards, checkpoints. And this makes results.

Part of the Nemesis Regiment was formed at the end of 2023, and since February 2024 it has been performing combat and special tasks. We have a reputation, are a known entity. When we conduct joint operations with other units, we often have a decisive influence. Due to the quality of our work, other military units and brigades are happy having us fighting alongside them, meaning it will become easier for them.

Regarding the future. Drones are an innovative class of weapons, and standards are being developed right now, “on the knees” [meaning “in haste”], so to speak. Guidelines are drawn up based on lessons learned from practical experience. We are the first, we have nothing ready - we create regulations, analytics, standards from scratch.

In the military, an important process is post-mission analysis and the implementation of the lessons learned.  This allows avoiding the repletion of systemic mistakes. This is how regulations are amended. The form of the war is changing extremely rapidly. Sometimes it seems that the future arrived the day before yesterday.

I remember the year 2022, and it is simply impossible to compare it with what is happening now. Whereas back then changes were analyzed once a year, then twice a year, but now everything changes within a span of three months. First-person-view (FPV) drones just barely came into being, and the countermeasures are already there. The same is with electronic jamming technologies – barely have they begun to be deployed, fiber-optic controlled drones, which have immunity against jamming, came as response. Mavic drones had only just begun to be intercepted when FPV drones have learned to hop across frequencies. China will release new circuit boards with 12 antennas tomorrow - and everything will start over.

Missed two months at the frontline? You are already behind.                     

NEMESIS – A GREEK GODDESS OF REVENGE AND RETRIBUTION, FOR THOSE WHO DON’T KNOW

I found out about this unit, that there are vacant positions, and they invited me to come and get acquainted. We talked about some aspects, how everything is happening, how they plan everything. At that same time, I was offered to take command of a strike drone company. I warned that I had no experience working with strike drones, no experience of command, but have an experience in leading a combat unit. In the end, I agreed but on condition that all my personnel, my people with whom we had already been together for almost two years by that time will be transferred with me. And so we were transferred as a whole unit.

And we are still serving together, for the fourth year now.

We were among the first to get into the Regiment’s organizational and staff structure. And I watched how everything was happening here – the approach was completely different from that in the military. A lot was adopted from the business industry. All processes were optimized where possible. Where it was necessary to determine priorities, they were determined and adhered to.

And I really like it now. I know how other units work, and I want to say that they can learn a lot from us.

Why Nemesis and how does it relate to drones? It's all very simple. The first tool we used was a drone named NEMESIS. So they started calling our battalion that way. No one called it by its number, the 412th. And everyone had me on their phones as Nemesis.

We are currently expanding significantly, so we are looking for like-minded people. Now it's not military enlistment centers that mobilize people for war, but military units themselves. Just fill out the questionnaire. If you want, you can visit our recruiting center for an offline interview. There are no enlistment officials employed there, only our recruiters. You can talk to them, choose a specialty, position, ask questions about everything that concerns you. Afterwards, if the decision is positive, you will be sent to undergo basic general military training program as a serviceman of our military unit, the 412th Nemesis Regiment.

HOME FRONT: THOSE WHO ARE NOT SERVING IN THE AFU – THEY ARE DIFFERENT

The home front has also changed a lot. The attitude towards the military has changed a lot. We hear everything, see everything and know everything. I don’t want to say that it doesn’t bother me. But I won’t say either that I can’t put up with it. For me, it’s predictable.

In any society, in any country, there is an active layer who volunteered at the beginning, who quickly made a decision.

I had guys in my infantry unit who were 19-20 years old and there were also people aged 50 plus. And they all fought well and continue fighting.

Frankly speaking, after analyzing the problem, I found an answer for myself: this shouldn’t cause me any irritation. By the way, we also have people who were “busified” – I met those who sat at home, then went “for bread” and ended up in the army and are now fighting quite well. They say: "Well, now that I am already at war, let me not die, but be ‘Rex’. I will fight." And they fight fiercely, believe me.

There is an active layer of society, it is at war, there are those who have some relation to war, work for the war, there are many volunteers and these are all our people.

And there are those who adapt. They did not join the army - they adapted so as not to get there. For them, if we lose the war and there may no longer be a state such as Ukraine, and there will be a state of Russia on this territory - okay, they will adapt to that too...

I know that someone has to work so that the economy can work. Someone can't due to health or age considerations. But there are people who have adapted by circumventing rules. If you hide because you are afraid, it's natural. You hide, you are afraid, you stay at home, okay, it's normal. If you quit your well-paid job and became a plumber at a utility company because it provides a deferral from military service, that's also okay, you found a legal solution. But when you "crossed the Tisza River", or decided to become a student at 40 years old, or you, a former athlete, received the status of a disabled person... Am I satisfied with the way things are going now? No, I'm not satisfied. Do I know how to fix it? No, I don't know yet. Because those who can change and manage these processes should be involved in this. I have tasks relating to my specialty. And they all relate to war.

Pavlo takes a look at his mobile, suggesting it's time to wrap things up. However, the number one priority for the time being remains the issue of American military aid. How critical can the factor of new US decision to refuse supplying equipment to those who fight with drones be?

- The major percentage of the equipment we work with is produced domestically in Ukraine. The major percentage.

- Does that mean to say that you feel confident that you can continue fighting?

- Definitely yes.

- Laconic… But one last question remains. Do you, volunteers, have any special traditions for celebrating the Volunteers Day?

- We congratulate each other, call each other. We would like to get together someday, but not now. But there is still a feeling of brotherhood among those who went to war from the very beginning. There are a lot of us. And when talk begins about who was mobilized when, and you are told “in February 2022,” you know – it’s respect. You know…there is no need for any special tradition. Maybe sometime later.

Pavlo will tell more – about the frontline, his own experience, combat brotherhood and sisterhood -- perhaps at a later time (“later” is a euphemism for both “after the war” and “when we win”).

In the meantime, the goddess of revenge and retribution and her followers on earth continue their work. In ancient times, she, Nemesis, was depicted holding an apple tree branch in her hand, and we, in the time of war of the 21st century, have a different image: the goddess of revenge will definitely hold a drone in her hands, a Ukrainian drone.

Honor to all who join and create this modern-style just retribution, because the evil of war must be punished.

Yaryna Skurativska conducted this conversation